Network Director

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This episode was produced by Anne Nguyen and Ashley Tam, hosted by Anne Nguyen, and graphic by Callista Wu and Claire Sun.

Time Stamps: 

00:00 Introduction to Women in Medicine Conversations: Dr. Avani Patel

00:28 Introduction to Dr. Avani Patel

03:28 Why Medicine?

05:44 Growing Up Asian Indian American in Mississippi

08:35 Work-Life Harmony

12:03 Health Equity Leadership & Cultural Competence in Mississippi

20:07 Sitting in Discomfort & Determining Your Boundaries

28:30 What Good Mentorship Looks Like

32:35 Reflections & Career Advice for Your Past Self

Full Transcript:

00:00 Introduction to Women in Medicine Conversations: Dr. Avani Patel

Anne: Hi everyone, this is our Women in Medicine series in the APAMSA Podcast where we dive into topics ranging from experiences as an Asian-American Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander woman in medicine,to topics like women’s health advocacy. Join us for these insightful conversations. For today’s podcast, we’ll be speaking with Dr. Avani Patel, who is a board-certified psychiatrist and community leader in her home state, Mississippi. Let’s welcome Dr. Patel. 

00:28 Introduction to Dr. Avani Patel

Anne: Dr. Patel, I’m very glad that you’re here with us today to share your insights about medicine and also your career and being a woman in medicine. Just as an intro question, could you start us off and tell us a little bit about yourself and also about your journey in medicine?

Dr. Avani Patel: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I’m so excited. So, I’m actually a concierge and sports psychiatrist, and I founded my own private practice called Mississippi Psychiatry and Wellness in my home state of Mississippi. I graduated from residency from the University of Mississippi Medical Center. And I actually also received my doctorate of medicine MD degree from there as well. In addition, I have a master’s in healthcare administration with emphasis on executive level leadership. So I thought I wanted to be a CEO, maybe a CMO of a hospital system, and I got that toward the end of my medical school training as well. I’ve done some additional training in sports psychiatry, I know that’s a new emerging field that people are excited about. I’m always happy to nerd out about that on another episode if it’s of interest. And so I was awarded that by the International Society of Sports Psychiatry. And so, a lot of my passion areas and the work that I do is in health equity, some consult liaison psychiatry, sports psychiatry, private practice, how to start a private practice, and what concierge care looks like, and then administrative leadership. And in terms of some of my leadership positions, which I think would be really helpful, especially as we go through training, there’s so much you can do and so much opportunity. I think it’s helpful to kind of know a little bit of that history. I actually served on my Mississippi State Medical Association Board of Trustees for six years as a medical student, as a resident. I was the first resident physician to serve on the American Medical Association Foundation Board of Directors, and I was actually invited to serve a second term. I was very involved with AMA as a medical student with some section related roles, as well as the resident fellow section. And I was actually the Vice Chair of our Committee on Business and Economics. And then now, currently with AMA, I’m on the Women’s Physicians Section Governing Council as the Young Physicians Section Representative. In addition, I completed three non-clinical fellowships throughout residency. And so, I did two in leadership and one in health equity, and I continued to serve in some of these roles, even from my specialty side of things. So I served a year on the American Psychiatric Association Board of Trustees and I was actually the Chair of the Leadership Fellowship through the American Psychiatric Association. And I also am the Senior Laughlin Fellow selected amongst my cohort, which is one of the highest honors you can receive as a trainee in the field of psychiatry through the American College of Psychiatrists. So I’ve done quite a bit of stuff from the leadership realm and as a trainee and really looking forward to continue that journey now that I’m early career. 

03:28 Why Medicine?

Anne: That’s great. It sounds like you have a lot of accomplishments and it’s really amazing that you’re– you’ve been really dedicated to staying and then helping out in the Mississippi area, as well as such a national scale for medicine as well. Could you tell us a little bit more about how your identity as a woman, and in addition your cultural background as someone who’s Asian American, and how that’s shaped your practice currently and also your journey in medicine?

Dr. Avani Patel: Absolutely. Thank you for that question. I think it’s so important to be proud of where we come from. And I’ll tell you, growing up in the state of Mississippi I wasn’t always proud. And in fact, I wanted to hide my background, because I felt like it wouldn’t be accepted and it wouldn’t allow me to grow in leadership. And so I’m actually Asian Indian American. So both of my parents are Indian and immigrated from India. I’m Gujarati by background specifically, my last name Patel kind of gives that away. So I was born in the United States, so I was born in Alabama and I was raised in Mississippi. I’ve spent most of my life here and my dream was always to be able to help people. So when my grandfather passed, he asked that I pursue a career in a way that I can help people and make a meaningful difference the way that he did. He was a farmer, but spent a lot of his life’s work in philanthropy. And so for me, I loved medicine and it just seemed like not only could I have the American dream, but I could do something really special and helping people in an area that I’m really interested in. And so I was the first in my family, in my immediate family, to go to college in the United States, medical school, and become a physician. And then my younger sister ended up following in the footsteps, but she’s now a plastic surgery resident, and my younger brother is now wrapping up his final year of medical school as well. So all of us decided to pursue a career in medicine, but different specialties.

Anne: That’s so cute. It’s like a little family business. Very adorable. Everyone was inspired in the same way, that’s very cute! Thank you for sharing.

Dr. Avani Patel: Yeah, even though we’re all different. Yeah.

Anne: Yeah, it’s like, you guys all have different niches, but kind of like the same goal in the end, which is so nice. 

05:44 Growing Up Asian Indian American in Mississippi

Anne: So throughout like your career, how do you feel that you’ve been able to balance your personal life, relationships, and also advancing your career in terms of career development during your training and also now that you’re established in your practice?

Dr. Avani Patel: Yeah, so I realized there is a part of the last question that I feel like I didn’t get to answer and something I kind of wanted to bring up and then I’ll move into this question because I think they kind of go together. So during the last question, you know, I think my background really inspired me because I realized where I grew up, you were either, you know, white or black, but nothing in between. And so in fact, you– I faced a lot more adversity being in the other category, if you will. And that was really interesting because I worried about, will I be able to get enough experience to go into medical school? You know I come from a humble background and humble family background, am I going to be able to have the resources? And throughout this time, I realized as I experienced adversity, I never want to treat people in the ways that I’ve been treated, my family’s been treated. And I think that’s something I’m really proud of that I see across the board with those of Asian heritage and background, is that we really are– do a great job, I think, of being able to overcome adversity, developing resilience, and grit. But it’s hard. It’s hard and we often don’t always check our mental health in that process. But fortunately, I use that to drive me to want to do more, to want to do better, and to also never treat people in the way that I wouldn’t want to be treated. 

And so that’s actually what inspired me to pursue the Health Equity Fellowship because the majority of the patient population of Mississippi, we actually have the highest black minority population in the country. And so if 80% of my patients identified as a minority, how was I gonna be able to do a good job of treating them? And so that’s how a lot of my background shaped, I think, who I am and the way that I practice, because I’m very down to earth, and I think that’s really important to remember that we’re all human at the end of the day. And it really allowed me to be able to speak to people in a way that I think is more personable. And that’s something that I encourage everybody to always keep about yourself. The more personable you are, the more you’re gonna be able to relate to your patients. And you know, it’s interesting because when we’re treating patients, there’s a lot of formulaic black and white understanding of the physiology, and in psychiatry. there’s a lot of gray. And what I realized is, when you really look at the data, sometimes what we’re not accounting for, and the thing we can’t measure is the rapport that we have with people. And so I think that’s something, that’s a really important point and a special point, and having that identity, that cultural background, and being ‘othered’, has really allowed me to progress forward in a way where I never want anyone else to feel othered in my interactions with them as a physician. So that’s something that’s really important to me. 

08:35 Work-Life Harmony

Dr. Avani Patel: Now in terms of kind of how to balance it all, I don’t like to say work-life balance. And it’s a phrase I’ve used before, but now I look at work-life harmony. Because the reality is that we’re never truly going to feel balanced. Nothing is ever going to be 50/50. And we have to be comfortable with that idea. But what’s important is feeling fulfilled when we’re achieving that harmony. So it might be that we are working more and we’re going to through different stages of our training in our life where that’s going to happen. In medical school, you are consumed with clinicals and absorbing all of this information and processing it. And sometimes it leaves little time for personal life. And in that process, I think the people who really care about you tend to stick around. And so, I say that people often go through our lives in seasons. And it’s okay if they go through life in seasons because they were meant to teach you something in that season. But guess what, there’s another season to experience. And so, I often say when we experience loss, or we experience the winds, it’s important to experience all of it. And that’s, I think, the really special part of being human. Otherwise, we would all end up being real life ChatGPT AI robots. And so in that process, you know, we understand that medicine is a very unique field. There’s a lot of sacrifice that’s made through this. But it’s important to choose yourself sometimes. And so throughout medical school, I’ll tell you one of the things that I never compromised on, and maybe I would have been a dermatologist or plastic surgeon or something at this point, was sleep. I love it, I love sleep. And so I said, you know, I know I’ve got exams, but I’m better off sleeping and just taking the L and making a guess, than I am continuing to push myself. And those are the ways that I found work-life harmony. And then even in residency, one of the things I prioritize– so for me, I’m not married, I don’t have kids, it’s something I definitely desire, and I say if it’s something you want, don’t give up on it. But if it’s something you don’t want, it’s absolutely okay. One of the hardest things is to be honest with ourselves, I think, whenever we’re dealing with these life things, because our career is so structured for us, right? Like we have a pathway that’s, that’s laid out for us. We know we have to go to medical school. We know we have to go to residency, maybe even fellowship. And then we kind of choose the next step in our career, whether it’s to be employed or go out on our own. There are steps that we go through in stages, but our personal life is not necessarily always laid out in that same fashion. And so in that process, I think we learn some adaptability, we learn flexibility, we learn that harmony between work-life is going to look different for everyone. And so, I always prioritize family, friends, and then travel, because travel makes me happy, and some of the extracurriculars. So because I wasn’t really responsible of having to take care of another human, or fur baby, or anything, it allowed for more time to be able to pursue some of these leadership activities that really gave me a lot of joy and made me more motivated to be a better medical student, resident, and now a physician today.

Anne: That’s great advice. I think, like you were saying, in the end, it’s really good for us to understand that, you know, we’re humans, our patients are humans. So then it’s good to be more forgiving, more understanding of anything that’s up and down and that way we can kind of be more resilient, and take better care of ourselves and other people too. 

12:03 Health Equity Leadership & Cultural Competence in Mississippi

Anne: I know you spoke to your Health Equity Fellowship before, and I actually find that really interesting, that’s not something I know a lot about and I don’t think I know a lot of people who’ve done like, a Health Equity Fellowship before. So I was just wondering if you could speak to like what that was like, how you kind of got into it, what you did during that fellowship, and then how you apply that now for caring for your patients in a culturally competent, health equity-minded way, especially in Mississippi, where you could potentially have less exposure to diverse populations.

Dr. Avani Patel: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s such a great question. So the fellowship, I will tell you which one I did, and I actually encourage everybody, when you feel you’re in the right stage to do, it’s actually meant for attending physicians. However, I was the first resident physician to pursue this. And I’m glad I did because those skill sets really helped me throughout my training. However, if I could go back, I may have waited until I was early career, because then you’re going to be in positions where you can make a more significant change on a system level sometimes, which we often don’t get an opportunity to do in training, only because we’re learning how to be doctors and take care of people and there’s a lot more, I think, pressure, as well as bureaucracy that we’re going to have to deal with. It’s very different from whenever you’re out and you kind of get to make choices in terms of what level of leadership and ownership do you want, which had actually played a huge role into why I didn’t end up going employed. Because I wanted to have a level of autonomy and a voice to be able to take care of people the way that I want, advocate in the way that I want, and also be able to set a standard for, you know, speakerships, educating, teaching, all of those things without having to go through the red tape. So I did the American Medical Association Satcher Health Leadership Institute Medical Justice and Advocacy Fellowship. I know that’s a mouthful, but all of that basically translates into a Health Equity Fellowship because it actually was born out of the Center for Health Equity at the AMA. And throughout that time, what I– what my goal was initially is that I noticed is that again, because 80% of my population identified as a minority, yet I live in a very red state, there are sometimes a bit of a mismatch in communication, as well as a distrust of the healthcare system and the physicians who are providing that care.

And I’ll actually recount a story from when I was a medical student, where I was in my third year of medical school, or maybe second year, I was going through clinicals, learning how to do a lung exam for the first time, and I wanted to hear rales. And so, I had a patient who was in her 90s, and I remember being with a colleague, who was a Caucasian male, and she said that my colleague could listen to her lungs, but I could not. And that was the first time in a long time where I thought, ‘what do I do?’ I mean, this, and she said, “Your kind is not welcome here.” And that was very hard for me. But I was in adrenaline mode and so, I realized in that moment, you know, I was basically damage controlling, where I said “Look, I understand how you may feel about me. I’m not looking to change your opinion. However, this is really important for me to listen to you because this may be able to help me save lives in the future.” And eventually, you know, through some disconcerted looks and some silent moments and pauses, she allowed me to listen to her. When I walked out of that room, I broke down. I didn’t realize how much how it had affected me, and it was sad to me that here we were in 20-, you know, -18 or 2017, and we’re still having to have these conversations and deal with this. And I don’t know– I didn’t know that’s how I would react and I wouldn’t want that for other people. But in that moment I realized I never want to be the person to put somebody else in that position, which is why I wanted to educate myself. 

And so that’s what really inspired me to pursue the Health Equity Fellowship, because there’s a lot of pain that I think that comes from that, and that was also very traumatic because it reminded me a lot of what I had gone through growing up in a very rural area in the South. So interestingly, I thought whenever I’m finished with training, I will leave Mississippi and I will never look back. But I realized that if everyone like me leaves, how will we ever experience change? How will we ever get to take care of people in the way that they deserve if we’re not willing to give back in these areas? But I also think it’s really important to take care of ourselves and our mental health care. So it depends on where you’re at in your journey with resilience and grit. I knew in my mind that I was not going to be able to change what she had been taught for the last 95 years. I really don’t think it was about me. It was about the values she had been taught. So when you’re able to compartmentalize and depersonalize it, it’s not to say that it makes it okay, but it allowed for me to realize that this wasn’t about me. And how can I contribute in society and be an advocate, so that my patients would never have that feeling the way that I did. And so, that’s something that I really wanted to be better versed on, particularly with some of the health equity related terminology. 

So something I didn’t realize that was actually a focus was actually understanding cultural differences and stigmas around mental health, which was helpful. And so, for me and the population I treat, they identify as black, and much of the stigma around it is praying it away. And even for me, you know, my cultural background, mental health was not really a thing, and there was a lot of pressure I received when I said– I thought I was gonna be an anesthesiologist, and then I changed my mind and decided to be a psychiatrist, and the reaction was, “So you went to medical school to do what? Out of all the things you could have done, that’s what you want to do?” And there was a lot of pressure. And even from mentors who were non-Asian, who said to me, “If you become a psychiatrist, no one’s ever going to respect you.” And I thought to myself, the best thing you can ever say to me is that I can’t do something, and I’m going to prove you wrong, and I’m going to show you that you can. And so, I’ve always found that mental health care is my passion because I really enjoy the ability of being able to understand people, relate to them even if I come from a different background, and communicate how we can heal. And I’m able to do that in a variety of ways, through therapy, through medication management. And it’s grey. You get to be creative and I’m very much a creative. So I get to use all these various modalities to really help people heal, which is pretty special. And I thought to myself, if I can save a life when someone can otherwise take it by choice? That’s something really special. And if I can make people feel like they’re understood, no matter what background they come from, then I’ve done something very special here. I’ve cracked the code, right? That’s all we really want. We all want to feel understood. We all want to achieve success in what we have envisioned for ourselves that success is. But that’s what’s interesting, is that success looks really different for everybody. And there are certain barriers, depending on what your background and what your gender may be. I have very much experienced all of those things. But it’s also important to kind of learn the system and learn how to navigate that system to be able to be in those places then to create change.

Anne: I really do agree with you that psychiatry is such an intimate specialty where you can really personalize the care that you give people, and you can also like, really get to know them as well. And then I can totally see how like a Health Equity Fellowship would better prepare you to have these deep meaningful conversations with people and then encourage them to take care of themselves and then be a part of that healing process with them. 

20:07 Sitting in Discomfort & Determining Your Boundaries

Anne: Just to build off of that story that you shared, I know a lot of medical students have trouble sometimes standing up for themselves when they’re going through clinicals and things like that, of maybe confusion of how to interact with patients or with other people and with the medical student hierarchy and everything during their training. I was just wondering if you’ve had any other strategies that have helped you advocate for yourself in these professional settings.

Dr. Avani Patel: Absolutely. One of the most, hard things to understand is that medicine still has a very traditional view of things in terms of a hierarchy system. And we know that as medical students, we tend to be at the bottom of the totem pole. However, I do think that the landscape is changing and medical students do have a lot more power than they think they have. But one of the things I caution people is to use it judiciously. Because sometimes we’re going to be an uncomfortable situations that we’re meant to experience. And it’s not ever nice to experience them, it’s not fair to experience them, but part of life is that it’s not going to be nice or fair. And so being able to gauge how we’re going to react to those things and handle those things are really important. 

And so, the advice that I share is the same advice that I share to patients because I think it stands the test of time and it’s something I do today. When something has hurt us or when something feels uncomfortable or when we feel like something is unfair. We often– it’s human nature to have a knee-jerk reaction of some sort, and that’s typically related to our personality. Right? We go in fight or flight mode and we’re like, okay, how do I do this? And for some people, their fight or flight mode, depending on what their cultural background is, is to remain timid, quiet, and just blend into the wall and just move on. For others, it might be addressing it right then, right there, right now, and I’m not sure that either method is really the method that’s going to help us solve the issue. So I would say taking time and being able to reflect on what happened is really important. Because we’re not in a state where we’re able to really, I think, address what’s going on. And being able to sit with something is very important. And so one of the things I recommend, and this is something I’ve gotten better with over time, and as I’ve gotten older, is, I like to sometimes write it down and have it be tangible and let me see what the situation is. Like how I felt about it, what happened, and keep in mind we’re always going to come in with a biased lens because it’s our version of the story, right? And then I need to, I like to sit with it. Because if you’re angry or if you have these feelings of discomfort. It’s gonna come across in the way that we respond. And so it might still be too emotional for us before we can address it. And so being able to sit with it, taking a look at it, asking people that you trust, whether it’s family, whether it’s mentors– I’ve done that where I’ve called mentors and I’ve said, “Hey, I experienced this, and I’m not really sure how to respond, but I know that it really upset me, I’m really emotional, and I want to make sure I’m doing this level headed.” And I can always refer back to my notes of how I’ve described the situation, how I feel and how I would want to respond. and then asking the question, “How should I respond?” Right? So that way, we’re always having a different perspective, which is important and it allows us to grow. So what we’re doing is we’re then wiring our brains on how to respond in a way that’s leadership driven, right, that’s evidence driven, and that’s a little bit less emotional because we now have perspective outside of ourselves from people who we deem to be leaders if that’s where we want to go. And that way, we’re also not feeling gaslighted, right? We want to make sure we have people who are on our team because this is gonna come up, this is gonna happen throughout our lifetime in a variety of settings, personally, professionally. 

And I think that’s the best way to be able to advocate for yourself is having mentorship and being able to take a step back when we’re less reactive. Um, so that way we’re able to make the best decision moving forward. Because one of the things I see often is I see people who die on every hill. And guess what? The people who don’t get listened to, who then get dismissed are the people who die on every hill. And it’s not that I’m not inspired by their passion and the fact that they’re standing up for themselves and advocating for themselves, but there’s strategy involved. It’s all about timing, place, and strategy. And that’s the way that you grow in leadership. And so the most successful people you’ll notice, it really doesn’t have as much to do with their level of intelligence. It has everything to do with their level of discipline and strategy. And that’s includes our own emotional regulation and control. And one of the things that I think humans do a really bad job of, that I think, that it’s important, is being able to sit in some discomfort. Because it’s important for us to get used to feelings of discomfort, but also understanding where the lines are in terms of what our boundaries are. So those are two different things, right? Being able to set boundaries and then being able to sit in discomfort. Because our boundaries drive how we advocate for ourselves moving forward, and having outside perspective of those with more experience, like a mentor or a family member who’s had a little bit more life experience on them, can really help us determine where we want our boundaries to live and where we want our areas of discomfort to be.

Anne: Yeah, I really like that idea, like what you were saying about that balance between boundaries and discomfort. I know for me, personally, like any type of discomfort makes me freak out a little bit. I kind of– I want to act on it. But like you were saying, you know, taking a step back, so I can understand myself, having other people give their input, so I can then again understand myself and the experience better. It kind of serves you in the end because then you just have a deeper understanding, a better plan of how to move forward instead of just acting on something and having to deal with the consequences of that. Yeah, I love the idea of sitting in your discomfort for a little bit. I think, it is uncomfortable, but it’s–.

Dr. Avani Patel: Right?

Anne: But being able to sit with it makes you more resilient too.

Dr. Avani Patel: It does, and I think it not only helps you in your professional life, but personal life too, right? One of my favorite examples is using a romantic example. Let’s say there’s someone you really like, and you’re like, okay, what do they think of me? It’s like we’re overthinking, we’re overanalyzing, it’s making us uncomfortable, but because we want something to happen now, sometimes that can be kind of suffocating. And so for the person on the other end, what’s the natural human inclination? It’s to take a step back because you’re like whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. We’re really reactive, like, this is a lot. This is really overwhelming, this is feeling smothering. Well, it’s the same way in professional areas and conflict. And so the people you notice handle conflict really well are the ones who are willing to take a step back and are basically, kind of like, microdosing themselves and being able to sit with discomfort. And it’s something that I’ve learned, and the trick I’ve learned over time, and has actually allowed me to be not only more effective as a leader, but more respected in the rooms that I’m in. 

Anne: That makes a lot of sense, there’s always something to learn from discomfort, because there’s something to resolve at that point. This is a really great idea that we can all kind of incorporate into our training as early on as possible, so like we just get better at handling difficult situations because it’s going to happen for us, especially in medicine. 

Dr. Avani Patel: You know, and it allows us to connect with people too, right? So part of being human is we are required and we need social interaction and social connection. Like the US Surgeon General in 2023 put out a report about the loneliness epidemic. And he didn’t just mean personally, he meant all facets of our lives. And so, that’s professionally too. That’s why I’m a big, big, big proponent of mentorship and seeking out mentorship, and not only locally, nationally, in whatever circles of life that you’re in, because there’s many different types of mentors we can have, whether in medicine, outside of medicine, in the community, I think it’s really important. Because it allows us to get better at testing our patience, building our resilience, again sitting in that level of discomfort, but also strategy planning so we can grow in leadership and advocate for ourselves in the same token.

28:30 What Good Mentorship Looks Like

Anne: On that note, what do you think makes a good mentor? Because as medical students, we’re always seeking mentors, looking for people to make professional networks with, but I think it’s difficult to establish these relationships sometimes.

Dr. Avani Patel: It can be because everyone’s so busy, right? And we go back to the idea of work-life harmony. But I do think there are people who love to pay it forward because they’ve received mentorship, they understand the value of mentorship, and those are the types of mentors that you’d want anyway. The people who don’t really value what mentorship can do or mentor-mentee relationship are probably not going to be the people who would make great mentors anyway, in my opinion. And so, I feel that one of the most important things is understanding that mentorship is a two way street. But as a mentee, we’re probably going to be putting in more of the legwork. And that’s just the truth of the matter because our mentors are likely going to be very busy. So one of the things that allows me to have many mentors and great mentorship relationships is that I’m consistent. I will always reach out, I will always check in, not only just for advice, but personally as well. And I think having that established relationship, even if it’s just an exchange of a message or two, is really important because it reminds the person in your life, they’re very important to you. Not only from a mentor capacity, but professionally and personally as well, that this is a relationship that you really, really value and someone who makes you feel safe. 

Now, there’s a caveat with it. Because if you have a mentor who basically encourages you to do every single thing that you want to do, to react in every single way that you want to react, are they really mentoring, right? So again, I think I seek a mentor who makes me uncomfortable sometimes, who will challenge me and say, “I’m just offering you a different perspective. What if you responded or reacted in this way?” The ones who say, “So I’m not saying you have to do it, but I’m offering it to you and I would support you no matter what, because I care about you and you’re my mentee.” So I’ve had some mentors who have given me some tough love, who have made me uncomfortable and sit in discomfort. But that’s really important because it’s been great for my growth. And then I have also had mentors who I realized in the end, weren’t really invested in me. Because all it was, was a feel good for them, in the sense of, okay, I’m doing this, I’m paying it forward, except I wasn’t really growing or learning from that relationship. And you need to have both. And I’ve even had mentors that I would say are no longer mentors, because I think it also shows you kind of, who’s on your team, who you’re looking to grow with. And they give you examples as you get to know people, right? We get to know people and we have ideas of them on the surface because everybody puts their best face forward. But sometimes over time, the more you get to know them, the more you realize they may not be the right fit for you. Or they’re teaching you something and that– there are things that they do that you know you don’t want to do moving forward or you don’t feel would be an accurate representation of who you are, the way you want to pursue your career, whether professionally, personally, any of those things. And so, mentors can come in a variety of ways, kind of like friendship, and I think nurturing that is important, understanding that you’re gonna put in more legwork is important, and that not every single person has to be your mentor. And it’s also okay to end a mentor-mentee relationship if you feel like it’s not serving you. 

Anne: That’s really good advice. I feel that for me, when I am trying to find a mentor, sometimes I really focus on this, like, perfect fit, they have to do everything exactly, like I want to do, have the same goals, the exact career that I want to achieve. But I feel that, you know, based on what you were saying, we can really have mentors that serve us in different aspects of our career. Like they can provide me with advice on this, or this mentor can make me feel a little more challenged, a little more, sit in discomfort like you were saying. And these are all things that can help us grow, which is I think a really, like a great way to approach mentorship is to reach out to people and then be open to different types of mentor experiences. Thank you for that. 

32:35 Reflections & Career Advice for Your Past Self

Anne: I think for our last question, this is gonna be a little bit of like a reflection for you. So if you could go back and give your younger self one piece of career advice, what would it be?

Dr. Avani Patel: I love this question for many reasons. The first reason is because it’s such a challenging question to answer. Because we’re all gonna be so different as we reflect on our younger selves. And there’s not a one size fits all answer for it. But one of the things that I think would be applicable to everybody, is to understand that you shouldn’t apologize for being you. Because you wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for you being you. And yes, you’re going to make mistakes. Yes, you’re going to do things and say things that you regret. Yes, you’re going to wish, “Oh, I should have studied instead of going to dinner with my friends.” And there’s always going to be a what if? Or should I have? Or should I not have? But it all comes together perfectly in my opinion because it makes you who you are. You become the person that you’re meant to be and I’m a firm believer in that. Whether you are someone who is spiritual, religious, not religious. I firmly believe that it always ends up working out in the way that it’s supposed to. And so as you experience adversity, as you experience biases in the field, which I have experienced many, age, race, gender. Just remember that you are always meant to be in the place that you’re supposed to be in, and you’re meant to have these experiences, whether they’re joyous, whether they’re uncomfortable, we are all gonna experience the hills and valleys. And so, even though sometimes it’s hard to see light at the end of the tunnel, it’s there, and never apologize for being you and try to be as patient with yourself throughout the process and enjoy as much of it as you can. Because it is fleeting and you realize how fast life moves. And it’s wild to think that just yesterday, I say yesterday, but this is 13 years in the making. I remember thinking in college, I finally get a chance to live out my dream. I get a chance to be a physician. And now I’m in my first year of practice, I serve in a multitude of roles, which I actually didn’t mention and may be helpful. So not only do I have my private practice, but I’m also a behavioral health medical director for a managed care entity. And so what I got hired on for is to build out our behavioral health coverage plan for our Medicaid population. And I’m the youngest in the country. In addition, I also contract my time to two rehabs. So I work with the post-incarcerated homeless Medicaid population, which I really really enjoy because it’s particularly challenging as you’re doing dual diagnosis work, and then my private practice is more catered toward a higher socioeconomic status population. And I did this because when I was in training, I was actually seeing, or funneled, a lot of our quote on quote VIP patients, and I realized I worked really well with high achieving individuals, but they also have their own unique challenges to recovery. And so I really get the full spectrum of individuals that I get a chance to treat. And I never thought I would have done this and I never thought I would really be the person that I am today. But I realized I wouldn’t be the person I am today if I didn’t get to experience all of the highs and lows in life. And there are things that we’re always gonna want and desire, and more is always going to be more, because that’s what we’re taught, it’s human nature. But if I could go back, I would say, enjoy all of the highs and lows. Be patient with yourself. Don’t apologize for who you are. And that’s the beautiful part of life. I think that’s the lesson we’re meant to learn.

Anne: Thank you, that’s a nice note to end our conversation today, a message of self-love and trust in ourselves, trust in our abilities, trust in our careers, which I think is very important for all of us because as a medical student, we’re on this very long path. It’s easy to get burnt out. So easy to kind of start losing our steam as we’re looking ahead. But in the end, like you were saying, I think just taking care of ourselves, trusting ourselves, and then knowing that we’ll– we’ll get to our end destination. And even if that destination is a little different than what we expected, sometimes it’s still like a very great journey.

Dr. Avani Patel: Think about it, you were chosen on this path. There are so many people who would kill to be in your position, but you were chosen to be on this path. We are the top 1% of the population. And that’s a pretty special thing. It doesn’t feel like it or doesn’t seem like it. But as you reflect and look at things on a larger scale, people are going to trust you with things they don’t even trust their spouse with, their children with. And that’s a pretty– I mean those are some big shoes to fill right? But that’s also why we do the grind because there’s something in us that realizes we want to do something bigger than ourselves and what’s outside of ourselves and I think medicine allows us that pathway.

Anne: That’s so nice to hear from someone who’s like been through been through it all. I think that it’s very inspiring to hear, especially knowing that for me I have a long journey ahead. I think it’s great to hear something that you would tell basically yourself at my point in my career too. 

Dr. Avani Patel: Absolutely, I really enjoyed it. I– for everyone who listens, just understand, I see you, I hear you. It’s such a psychiatrist thing to say, but it’s so true because the journey is worth it. And the thing is, is that we can’t predict life, right? That’s one of the cool things is that we get to experience it, not predict it. And there’s a lot of fear around that, but I think there’s also a lot of excitement in what the unknown is because then we hold the cards. It’s up to us in terms of what our next play is going to be.